At what age should I have my puppy spayed?

Paula

My westie puppy, Molly, is almost 4.5 months old. Two of the vets in the practice we use have given two different lots of advice regarding when to get her spayed. Vet A said get her spayed before her first season (so that would be very soon from now) and that it would reduce cancer and would also help prevent incontinence (as she is a small breed of dog). Vet B said have her spayed after her first season around 6 months of age and that to do it before then may be bad for her health as her hormones are still developing and also as she is young. putting her under anesthetic may be a danger.

We are going to stay in a caravan for a week when she will have just turned 5 months so if we don't have her done before then there is a chance she might come into heat whilst we are away. A chance we will have to take but if it does happen then extra care will be taken to ensure no dogs get near her.

I've had mixed opinions from all sorts of dog owners but most people seem to think its best to let Molly have her first season. Some people have also suggested we should let her have one litter when she is a couple of years old, others have even suggested we breed from her ASAP and "get our moneys worth from her" as she is a pedigree. I was appalled to hear this, we didn't get her to make money, we got her as a pet. I have no intention to breed from her as I don't have the knowledge in this area. Like I say, we did not get her for this purpose.

So I'm wondering what to do, whether to spay her before or after her first season. I'm in two minds due to all the differing advice I have received. I'm inclined to let her have a season and then have her spayed.

I've also heard that females generally calm down a bit and are not so hyper after they have been spayed, is this true?

Oh just while I'm thinking about this, when we took her to the vets over the weekend to talk about this, we discovered that her anal glands were blocked so the vet released the blockage. She said it might never happen again or it might be a regular thing she needs to have done. Is there any way we can help prevent her getting this blockage?

Any advice from you expert dog owners would be appreciated (sorry don't mean to sound patronising but collectively the dog owners who use this site seem to have an enormous amount of knowledge!)

Will be posting pics of Molly soon btw

Paula

meesha

I faced the same dilemma - and went for spaying Meesha before her first season. She recovered very quickly and I did not see much difference in her nature - still loving and playful.

Good luck.

Aileen

Jacqui_UK

Yeah I was wondering this for my male pup
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Twig

Personally I'd wait till after her first season as I have heard to do before can mess up their hormones. You'll have to be extremely careful though when she comes into heat, you can buy something, I forget its name that helps keep the males away.....does anyone know? If she got preggie so young, it really wouldn't be good for her as shes still a pup herself.

I can't believe anyone would tell you to breed her! Shocked

What utter idiots! Rolling Eyes

Twig

oh and I forgot:

As for changes after the spay, it may help calm her down, but being a terrier, I doubt you'll see much of a difference tbh! Laughing

Oh and remember metabolisms slow down after being spayed, hence so many people accuse neutering of 'making dogs fat' so keep an eye on her weight you may have to slightly reduce her food intake. Although as shes a pup, you may not have to do so intially, but be aware. Very Happy

Paula

Jacqui - the dog trainer we use at puppy class was asked about what age to neuter a male and she said after 6 months and to definately make sure he has started to lift his leg to pee otherwise he will stay a pup forever in that respect. i'm no expert on this but am just repeating what she said.

Twig - thanks for the advice, you seem to know lots about all sorts of different animals! Being a terrier she is full of herself so we will have to see if anything changes after being spayed. I love her to bits though so am quite happy with how she is Smile

As for putting on weight, she doesn't eat anywhere near the daily allowance as suggested on the pack so I doubt she will be putting on loads of weight but then we do walk her a couple of times a day, just short walks which she loves. I did mention to the vet about if she is eating enough and she said its fine and that she is in good condition, not underweight so its fine.

Violette

The one really big rule is that she cannot be spayed until about 12 weeks after a season, if you allow her to have one. (Some people say 9 weeks, but I think it depends if you are counting from beginning of the season, or from the end, which is approx 3 weeks later). This is essential and non-negotiable (unless there is a medical emergency, which is highly unlikely!) because if she does have a season then that is the time it takes for her hormones to get back to normal, and for increased blood flow to uterus etc to stop and everything go back to its dormant size.

So, if you really can't wait until that long after a season for some reason (with the complication that you don't really know when the season will start), then you could get her done before one.

The bit about allowing her (for her own good) to have a litter first is an old wives tale, with no foundation in fact. It doesn't help them settle, it doesn't make it easier on them. It doesn't matter at all. The advice about "getting your money out of her" I don't think deserves an answer - I'm not saying don't breed (that is entirely up to you) but that is no attitude to have towards a dog.

It is true that spaying cuts the chance (or even removes the chance) of certain cancers - but I don't think that it matters all that much whether or not you allow a season.

So, before or after first season? A debate that is raging (there are posts on similar threads elsewhere). It used to be absolute best practice to wait until after a season, and tbh that has been my choice for all my bitches. It makes sure that the dog is physically fully mature (and full size, which is particularly important with smaller breeds) before they have what is major surgery with general anaesthetic. I have also been advised by experienced vets that it cuts down on the possibility that minuscule amounts of ovarian tissue can be left behind (though this can still happen if the dog has had a season - but less likely). This isn't a problem, except that it can affect behaviour slightly as these ovarian cells might still produce small amounts of hormones, which can affect her behaviour and might still attract attention from dogs (see a thread by VJH elsewhere about this - she noticed this behaviour in her lab).

But none of these are real hard reasons why you should wait. In the end, this one has to be up to you and your circumstances. Tbh, I'm not sure that spaying her will settle her general behaviour all that much. Neutering has that effect on dogs, but I'm not sure it has on bitches. When you think about it, the dogs can be affected by their hormones all the time (all it take is the trigger), but bitches are only affected by them when in season (or when pregnant). So removing them won't affect their behaviour in the times when they wouldn't have been circulating in the bloodstream anyway. The settling down after spaying might have more to do with general maturing, I think.

As Twig says, you will have to watch her weight afterwards - but that shouldn't be a problem. I also wouldn't concern yourself that she doesn't eat as much as the food manufacturer's guidelines recommend. I don't know where those guys get those figures from, but no dog I have ever had has ever needed anything like as much as they recommend (which isn't to say they wouldn't have eaten that much, given half a chance!!). If your pup has bright eyes, happy spirit, healthy coat, plenty (??- help!) of energy, and is growing properly, if you can feel but not see the ribs, then you have a healthy pup who is the right weight - and you can throw those guidelines in the bin!

Twig

I know terriers, I am owned by an airedale! Laughing

I agree with violette, the manufacturers guidelines always state too much, its so you run out of food quicker and have to replace it more often, meaning more money for them. It also works out nicely for vets as they can charge us a lot when our obese pets need care. Rolling Eyes

Paula

Thanks for all of the advice, things to mull over for the next couple of days. I'm inclined to agree that it is better for the hormones to have Molly spayed after the first season. I really am quite annoyed with the people that have said to me I should breed from her to make money. Not the reason I got her at all - as far as I'm concerned this lovely pup IS my moneys worth and thats good enough for me.

I guess we will have to just wait 12 weeks from when we know she has came into heat and take it from there? I'm a bit surprised at my vets, I thought the advice the practice give out would at least be consistent? Or is it just a matter of opinion?

We have no big plans for the rest of the year so we can get her done whenever and I'm taking a couple of days off to be with her all the time to make sure she recovers ok from the op.

Can't believe these food manfs suggest such huge amounts of food. I was quite worried that she wasn't eating enough but am reassured by the vet. She looks very healthy and has a good appetite but there is no way she could eat how much she should do according to the instructions. She also has a kong with something frozen inside it once a day plus a chew or two so I don't think she is going hungry. Have been trying to make the kong fillings as low fat as possible just to help with weight etc but she doesn't seem to notice, food is food as far as Molly is concerned! Oh and I can't believe how much fruit she loves - apples, pears, bananas, melons, strawberries (straight from my garden grrrr), carrots.... anything really!

Violette

Carrots seem to be generally popular. Meg also loves cucumber and peppers (red and orange, not green). Hates tomatoes, but loves the tomato sauce on pizzas.....

Totally forget those manufacturers guidelines - I think they must calculate them based on needs of working collies or racing greyhounds Rolling Eyes

. If Molly ate that much, she would be a wee tub.

Josh

I think the best time is after the first season ?? Razz

VJH

oohh I went through this dilema with RUby - for every opinion there appears to be a counter opinion soo in the end I went with my gut Wink

I tried to ignore all the advice and see for one moment what I felt was right. I chose to wait until after Ruby's first season and boy did she make me wait - she was 15 months old at first season Razz

Ruby was spayed in march and it was HELL - for me that is she sailed through Wink

Ruby has gained about 3kg since she was spayed but she is a skinny lab so that was an advantage for us - also at 18 months they tend to fill out with maturity also. I think the old wives tale about them calming down may come from the fact that they calm with age anyway so it could be a coincidence when that happens.

They can be in season for 28 days though so you need to be prepared. We kept Ruby in for the whole time and it was fine - I thought she would be a nightmare as she is hyper looney lab but she kind of kicked back and snuggled in for the duration.

As for males well I am getting a male dal this year (fingers crossed touching wood and all that) and I plan to get him castrated at 12 months - unless he displays unwanted sexual behaviours before then HTH
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Vicky, Daisy and Ruby xx
Ruby´s album
Daisy´s album

Crissi

Ok this is my 2 pennies worth. Like everyone else I had the same dilemma too...I think I am lucky and have a good vet that I trust. He has cared for my indoor rabbit for over 6 years and my lab for 1 and 1/2 yrs and now I have a little toy poodle and sees her too off course.
After a lot of reading on the net and questioning with my vet I decided to follow his advise and have Kyra spayed 12 wks after her first season. I had the same as you Paula, the other vet in the practice advised me to have her spayed before her season, so you can imagine I was pretty confused. I am glad I listened to my vet and not the other in the practice and Kyra sailed through and recovered very well. Like Vicky said though she has not calmed down too much, still her vigorous and excitable self.

Now though with my toy poodle I face the same dilema again, as my vet that I trust tell me that with small breed you have them spayed before their season at around 6 months of age. I do trust him completely and I think I will go with his advise. GA is always a risk, at any age and size. You can end up driving yourself insane thinking over and over what to do.

I am sure your baby will be fine whatever you decide, as although there are contraddicitng opinions on when is best to spay or neutered, they all seem to fine either way. Someone I know had her Lab spayed when she was 6 months and she is perfectly fine.

One thing I would make sure is that wherever you have her spayed, they have the best monitoring equipement and facilities. That was important to me, to know that not only she was in good hands but also she was monitored when under.

Kyra has put on only 1/2 Kilo but only becuase she doesn't run like a lunatic as much.
Food, I echo what the others said, forget about the recommended amount from the manufacturers, all dogs are different and have different level of excercise. Only you know your dog and the level of excecise she does.

Sorry for such a long post, I do tend to get carried away.... Embarassed

xxx

jenvetnurse

Most vets favour spaying before first season and this is rcvs guideline advice.

it depends on practice policy ie all vets should be singing from the same hymn sheet at your practice - it sounds as if they are not.

I would advise you to get it done now.

good luck - let us know how she gets on - shes a very cute westie. Laughing

coliel

can i ask why it would be better to have the pup done so early any way?
i always think unless needed like for health probs or a full male with constant accsess to the pup , you mite as well waight untill she is 2 years old!
the reasen being that it gives bothe the bitch and dog time to fully mature and become the dogs they were going to rather than never reach their full potensial also their stronger and are much more likly to get over the opp as well as giving the dog a better chance of keeping its condition.
i have to be honest and say i do like a full dog they have a real spark about them - the more i look into having merlin done at 2 the more i might not!
i have met some fantastic full dogs of late - stunning!
love coliel